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24 July 2009

Comments

ryan


Receive in one kind (and switch to actual wafers). It's bad enough that there's no communion at evening services until August 16th without thinking of stopping it altogether! What if the "pandemic" last for a year?! Do we really want our practice with the Eucharist to be based on government infection guidelines? Should we do without bible readings for , say 6 months, so that people will seek God's Word even more?! The Eucharist is the centre and summit of the Christian life and should be treated as such, especially as we are anglicans (of sorts).

rache

can I tactfully suggest we get a grip, we are just as likely to catch it sitting next to each other, Have we any idea what we can catch as it is....how many cold sore sufferrers use it weekly without a thought? Soon we won't be going outside!In fact if we are really concerned we should just stop congregating! please lets not react like daily moron readers.

Fr Dougal

Or what about a good old fashioned non-communicating High Mass so the faithful can venerate the Sacranment and make a spiritual communion? But seriously: not having communion is a step too far really. It may make a difference if you use non alcoholic Communion wine or grape juice, but I'd have thought one kind as a temporary measure made most sense.

ryan

Ooh, venerating the Blessed Sacrament is a fabulous idea! Surely we could borrow a Monstrance and/or ciborium from other pisky churches? o{]:-)|>+

Ric Adams

Hi...we were due to show this video on Sunday, as a 'light hearted' way of describing our new arrangements for communion...now we're going to take a break from taking communion for a 'wee while'...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ0fcLtUHPs

Billy

Rache -you will be increasing your chances of catching it - and be responsible for anyone else you infect. I would say that congregations with a large elderly or child congregation should be especially careful.
Having said that, the media have been talking a lot of nonsense.

You guys are such a bad example to us non believers - surely you should trust your god not to catch it :-)


PS creationists - you guys dont believe in evolution, so you cant use Tamiflu

 ryan


Ah, but perhaps mental evangelicals (tautology?) think that God is punishing the UK with swine flu for allowing so much homosexuality and belief in evolution ? ;-)

Beat Attitude

I reckon we need some kind of dividing curtain for the high priest to go through into the containment area.

Incidentally, I've noticed these days how hay fever has become extremely unfashionable to have...but sneezing/coughing is a good way to get some space on a crowded train.

Seriously, though... It's unlikely that you have swine flu if you don't have a temperature, or a sudden cough. Therefore, the number one indicator should be: if you feel "temperaturey" i.e. over 38 degrees, then move away from other people.

Billy

Ryan, I bet it wouldnt be too hard to find someone making that claim

rache

billy please don't make an assumption that i'm a creationist!
Also nothing in what I said would increase infection rate,,,not congregation would be more preventative so I don't follow the logic. I can't be responsible for infecting anyone if I'm not in contact with them. Also given my job I'm perfectly aware of how diseases spread.

rache

sorry congregating

Jimmy

Matthew 26:27. Luke 14:23. and 1 Corinthians 11:25.

All refer to the cup Jesus used as "The cup" rather than "His cup" suggesting that the common cup was a jorum or jug from which all those at the table poured from into their own cups. This would mean that the Lord blessed the wine rather than the cup.

Luke 22:17. After taking the cup, he gave thanks and said, "Take this and divide it among you"

Jimmy

Ps the second verse is Mark 14:23.

 ryan

Jimmy - And?
Our Lord was obviously present with far less individuals at the inauguration of th e Eucharist than you would (hopefully!) find at a modern church service. Are the type of cups that would have been used in first century Jerusalem particularly holy because they were of a type that were used at the Last Supper? And obviously the wine became Jesus' Blood which is not the same as Him just blessing it.

 ryan

Out of interest, are clergy obliged (or enouraged) to take the Sacrament to those who are sick at home? Wouldn't that lead to them risking contracting the disease, and then spreading it to further parishioners during the course of the work? Hmm. Or can they send a more disposable person with the pre-consecrated sacrament to visit the ill?

Billy

Rache, please read carefully - I did not call *you* a creationist. It is in a different paragraph and plural. It also comes after a paragraph where I jokingly address the church.

Virus particles will be on the cup, so you will come into contact with it. The person handing out the bread and wine will also be in contact with sufferers. You may therefore come into contact with the virus without having to sit next to a sufferer. This is what I disagree with!

I agree that not congregating will be preventative, however if you do catch it through communion, you are responsible for those you infect - I said nothing about non congregatimg.

"Soon we won't be going outside!In fact if we are really concerned we should just stop congregating! please lets not react like daily moron readers."

Does this statement mean that you think people should ignore advice on prevention? Congregation will transmit the disease afterall. Even though the danger is hyped up, it is still a potentially deadly infection - and at the very least makes people very unwell for a long time. At best, preventative measures will only slow down the spread, but it may delay it until such times as a vaccine may be available.

I'll see you your job and raise you my degree (which was about 1/8 epidemiology and a PhD since you like the argument from authority fallacy.

Jimmy - Mark 16:15-18 would you put it into practice? :-)

ryan

Billy - Rache is qualified to wear rubber gloves and a white coat too!

Beat Attitude

this thread is threatening to become viral :)

Ryan, do you believe at the last supper actual transubstantiation took place?

Billy

Ryan,

That may be the case, but her claim that you "we are just as likely to catch it sitting next to each other" as you are taking communion is just plain wrong for the reasons I have given. Virus transmission is (amongst other things) a function of distance from an infected source. If someone is infected and takes communion, you are coming into close contact with virus. You therefore have the statistical probability of sitting next to a source as well as the probability of catching it from communion. The chance if infection is therefore greater.

To give wrong information leads to confusion and is irresponsible. It is even worse when someone tries to use their job as an argument from authority. There are even a few "authorities" that claim HIV does not cause AIDS, but I wouldn't recommend taking their advice based on the fact they can wear a white coat and gloves.

 ryan

Oh, indeed. Last week at st.silas they suggested staying at home if you're sick which is sensible (and obviously a great cover story if someone just has, say, a hangover and understandable wants to skip church). I heard that proper fine metal chalices are less likely to spread the virus than ceramic one, so hopefully our godawful GAFcon one will stop being used. Every cloud... ;-)

 ryan


Jigga :

I do believe in the Eucharistic Real Presence :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Presence

which, even if one doesn't go as far as transubstantiation, suggests that "blessed" is an insufficient word to describe what was taking place. There was a story recently about C to the E clergy "blessing" toilets (although they can't bless gay couples. Hmm) , for example.

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