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26 October 2012


Andrew T

A bold but beautiful vision if I may say so, GV. What is for sure is that things cannot go on as they are.

Rhea Flanery

I'm not sure that having ZERO organisation or hierarchy is a good idea though. Perhaps not an over-abundance of either is what is truly needed.


where two or more are gathered Dave...

Brian Carlisle

I found this very challenging David and in my opinion the points you make are things the various churches should address - with energy.
I know my views will sound like criticism but leading edge manufacturing firms have been along a similar road and found that running an organisation on worker participation principles, and semi-autonomous work groups etc not only adds economic value but increases the mental health of the organisation It is often found that people working in such organisations tend to contribute to worthwhile activities in their churches and in society generally. They dig out and use their latent (God given) creativity and talents.I believe he wants them to!
These days the challenge is not about better management (of churches or other organisations) but better leadership. You will know that when a leader moves on no one is quite sure what he/she actually did but that he left the place infinitely more healthy - he/she encouraged the "people" to improve things using their God given talents. As far as I know he didn`t consult any of the bishops for agreement on this distribution of talents!! Unfortunately the Anglican Church has allowed itself to develop and maintain a hierarchical form of organisation so people are not inclined to contribute in the way they do, with success, outside the church. Indeed they are sometimes discouraged especially if the minister lacks self esteem and because he feels threatened. OK but this seriously blocks church growth. I often think of Eric Liddell`s answer when asked, after an Ireland v Scotland athletics meeting, "Where is this power to run the strong straight race?" "It is within you" he replied. It seems that Eric was not a great supporter of the top down approach to change.History seems to suggest that worthwhile change comes from the bottom up. Sorry for going on a bit and not for the first time I will probably cause offence But perhaps the offended should ask themselves why they feel offended and is it justified.
Christians have such a wondeful message to proclaim - no ad agencies needed so where and why are we missing out?
Two short points: Thanks David for encouraging my rehabilitation when I came to St Silas. Finally I appreciate how Rhea feels but I think you were referring to an alternative form of organisation, not zero organisation

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GadgetVicar serves with:

  • Scottish Anglican Network
    A network in Scotland of Anglican churches and individuals who follow Jesus and are enthusiastic for Him to be known in our communities.
  • St Thomas' Church, Edinburgh
    A welcoming community of people in the West of Edinburgh who follow Jesus and who long for others to join them on that journey.